Changing name of channel to ....OBSOLETE

I can confirm, that on this provider (UPC Hungary) is something wrong: if you leave "Update channels" on "Add new channels" the channels are readded at every transponder switch. I don't know the reason. This is not a new symptom, I didn't notify it, because I thought that the error is on the provider's side.

I think it the same reason as it was with SES5 and Astra 4A - two different satellite orbital positions are in the practice 4.8E and 5.0E in the NIT.
In the UPC Hungary case we have 3 satellites: Thor 5, Thor 6 and Intelsat 10-02. They reports different positions: 0.8W and 1.0W. VDR looks this info and mark channels as OBSOLETE if it mismatched.

Practical evident.
When zapping to the "Animal Planet Europe" (regarding to the Lyngsat - Thor 5) on the 11785H, with dvbsnoop we have:

Transport_stream_ID: 69 (0x0045)
    Original_network_ID: 70 (0x0046)  [= 1 degree W | Telenor]
    reserved_1: 15 (0x0f)
    Transport_descriptor_length: 141 (0x008d)


            DVB-DescriptorTag: 67 (0x43)  [= satellite_delivery_system_descriptor]
            descriptor_length: 11 (0x0b)
            Frequency: 17367808 (=  10.90300 GHz)
            Orbital_position: 16 (=   1.0)
            West_East_flag: 0 (0x00)  [= WEST]
            Polarisation: 1 (0x01)  [= linear - vertical]
            Kind: 1 (0x01)  [= DVB-S2]
            Roll Off Faktor: 1 (0x01)  [= Alpha 0.25]
            Modulation_type: 2 (0x02)  [= 8PSK]
            Symbol_rate: 2424832 (=  25.0000)
            FEC_inner: 3 (0x03)  [= 3/4 conv. code rate]

When zap to the HBO Hungary (Thor 6) 11727V:

Transport_stream_ID: 1 (0x0001)
    Original_network_ID: 1 (0x0001)  [= Astra Satellite Network 19,2°E | Soci? Europ?ne des Satellites]
    reserved_1: 15 (0x0f)
    Transport_descriptor_length: 18 (0x0012)


            DVB-DescriptorTag: 67 (0x43)  [= satellite_delivery_system_descriptor]
            descriptor_length: 11 (0x0b)
            Frequency: 19302144 (=  12.68700 GHz)
            Orbital_position: 8 (=   0.8)
            West_East_flag: 0 (0x00)  [= WEST]
            Polarisation: 0 (0x00)  [= linear - horizontal]
            Kind: 0 (0x00)  [= DVB-S]
            fixed ('00'): 0 (0x00)
            Modulation_type: 1 (0x01)  [= QPSK]
            Symbol_rate: 2576384 (=  27.5000)
            FEC_inner: 3 (0x03)  [= 3/4 conv. code rate]

Because in the sources.conf we have defined only 1.0W position, then I think that in this example the "HBO Hungary" channel will be marked as OBSOLETE in vdr.

br,
Arthur

You're right, arkoko. There are apparently two satellite positions at S1.0W and S0.8W.
Here's what you should do to fix this:

- Add the new position to your sources.conf file:

--- sources.conf        2015/02/05 11:00:31     3.3
+++ sources.conf        2015/02/18 09:22:41
@@ -111,7 +111,8 @@
 
 # Atlantic
 
-S1W     Thor 5/6 & Intelsat 10-02
+S0.8W   Intelsat 10-02
+S1W     Thor 5/6
 S4W     Amos 2/3
 S5W     Eutelsat 5 West A
 S7W     Nilesat 101/201 & Eutelsat 7 West A

- Add the new position to your diseqc.conf file, like

S0.8W   11700 V  9750  [E0 10 39 F0] W100 [E0 10 38 FC] W100 [E0 10 38 FC]
S0.8W   99999 V 10600  [E0 10 39 F0] W100 [E0 10 38 FD] W100 [E0 10 38 FD]
S0.8W   11700 H  9750  [E0 10 39 F0] W100 [E0 10 38 FE] W100 [E0 10 38 FE]
S0.8W   99999 H 10600  [E0 10 39 F0] W100 [E0 10 38 FF] W100 [E0 10 38 FF]


S1W     11700 V  9750  [E0 10 39 F0] W100 [E0 10 38 FC] W100 [E0 10 38 FC]
S1W     99999 V 10600  [E0 10 39 F0] W100 [E0 10 38 FD] W100 [E0 10 38 FD]
S1W     11700 H  9750  [E0 10 39 F0] W100 [E0 10 38 FE] W100 [E0 10 38 FE]
S1W     99999 H 10600  [E0 10 39 F0] W100 [E0 10 38 FF] W100 [E0 10 38 FF]

(Note that this is just what I use, your setup may be different. The two positions will very likely use the same LNB, though, since they are so close together).

- Change the source position of all channels that are marked OBSOLETE from S1.0W to S0.8W.

That should do it.

I'll look into this in more detail after version 2.2.0, to maybe find a better working solution.

Klaus

Es handelt sich nict nur über dem Provider UPC (Hungary), es ist hier noch ein Beispiel, von dem Provider ESS!

Fishing and Hunting OBSOLETE;OBSOLETE ESS:11747:hC56M2S0:S1.0W:28000:7106=2:7206=hun@3,7306=ron@3,7406=cze@3,7506=bul@3:0:B1C,B02,D02,1815,D97,1802,1880,653,1882:1006:4369:5:0

Ich bin übrigens ein begeistert Angler im Donau in Budapest!

Mod.: Please use code tags ...

Zitat von kls

You're right, arkoko. There are apparently two satellite positions at S1.0W and S0.8W.
Here's what you should do to fix this:

Danke Klaus!

Mod.: No need for a full quote ...

Zitat von attuska

Es handelt sich nict nur über dem Provider UPC (Hungary)

I know it. I provided UPC only as example, because it has been mentioned in the previous message.

Ich habe mir das mit den obsoleten Kanälen jetzt mal eingehender angeschaut. Das Problem ist offensichtlich, daß VDR auf einen Kanal mit Source = S1.0W getunt wird, er dort aber eine NIT für S0.8W empfängt (die beiden Positionen sind quasi nicht zu unterscheiden, was die Antennenausrichtung betrifft).

Der beliegende Patch setzt in einem solchen Fall den Source-Wert der neu angelegten Kanäle auf den richtigen Wert, womit die vielfachen OBSOLETE verhindert werden.
Allerdings wird ein Kanal, der in der channels.conf mit S1.0W steht, aber in Wirklichkeit von S0.8W kommt, nach wie vor als OBSOLETE gekennzeichnet, und man muß in seinem DiSEqC-Setup u.U. die neue Position eintragen, um den veränderten Kanal empfangen zu können.

Klaus

If I understand this right, this also means, that in the future we'll need 2 separate entrys in diseqc.conf, one for S0.8W and one for S1W (with the same diseqc commands)? Obviously this is valid only for diseqc enabled systems.

That is correct. Technically these are two separate positions, even though they are very close together.

Klaus

Surely this may cause an issue if you are using a GotoX rotor and you're in a weak signal area?

As an example, you may have your dish fine tuned to pull in the best signal at 0.8W yet if you update your channels.conf and disecq.conf to tune the channel at 1.0W to work around the "OBSOLETE" mark then your dish will move 0.2E before tuning the channel...

Might it make sense to allow multiple orbital positions to be mapped to the same actual position?