EPG unreliable from satellite (SOLVED)

  • I am running VDR with DVB-T2 and S2 tuners and now I have an EPG issue. Basically same DVB-T2 channel gives EPG for almost a week ahead. Excactly same channel from satellite gives sometimes half a day - sometimes just next show - sometimes few days and sometimes there can be few days without EPG data at all.


    Satellite provider is Nordic Canal Digital and by that satellite is Thor in position 1.0w


    VDR discussion in Finland is bit dead and it is bit hard to find local support. I got hint from local VU+/Enigma satellite users forum that have I used correct EPG update frequency? I have no idea am I using it or not. EPG clearly works but compared on T2 signal there is a significant difference currently and I try to figure out where problem lies. From that satellite forum I got confirmation that EPG data in VU+/Enigma environments in same signal has been decent. So based on that I assume data in signal is better than my VDR currently gets.


    At the moment I am not planning to start squeezing EPG from internet as I first want to get out from satellite as well as I can. As a non german speaking search from this forum is bit hard though reading works well via Google Translate. This thread for example falls bit on my issue but here solution is XMLTV which is not the solution I would like immediately go


    https://www.vdr-portal.de/forum/index.php?thread/132232-epg-on-canal-digital-dvb-epg-norway/&pageNo=1


    So I am asking help how to tune up DVB-S2 receiving get as much of EPG data as possible. Currently I fear that my system is missing something. As a non expert it is bit hard to figure out settings related on this - is it VDR core or EPGSearch settings that affects on this kind of issues? With search I have found only frequency setting for system time in EPG settings but I am happy with my system time - just epg contents is missing information.


    If this is more generic issue and other users have similar problems with EPG data then it is acceptable to me also start setting up XMLTV but before that I would like to figure out is that really the only possible solution?


    My version is Ubuntu 20.04 - VDR 2.4.x coming out from Ubuntu binaries

  • How often do you tune on that specifical satellite channel so that VDR can extract the EPG data?


    Your TV channel might have decided to save satellite costs by limiting the EPG data being sent out for just one day ahead.

    Or it's simply mis-configured on their side when they send out a week by DVB-T2.


  • As I receive finnish national broadcasting company basic channels via satellite VDR is pretty often tuned on DVB-S2 channels. I typically leave VDR on that channel. Just now VDR has been tuned on that problematic channel at least since last night and current situation is


    Today - full data for next 3-4 hours. Then totally empty until tomorrow morning around 9am where I have full data again for 3 hours. Monday nothing and in tuseday (4th) day 6 hours from 3am to 9 am.


    In the same time full data for next 8 days in same channel transmitted in DVB-T2.


    I need to make a bit more studies - leave VDR to those problematic channels and see how it affects while tuned somewhere else.


    Does your comment mean that if it works it works as well as operator has given the data. Can we see contents of the transmission in someone elses system for example in Germany and compare it to mine? It is for example Finnish Yle TV1 HD from Thor satellites.


    Actually when I compare any random Hungarian/Czech channel that I never tune in my VDR the contents of the EPG is much better than in those Finnish channels I am talking about. So your statement that operator has saved money makes sense but in the same time I have comment from local VU+ user group that their EPG is fine. So I am bit confused still - is it data sent by satellite or VDR capability to read it where problem lies as information I am gathering is bit controversy.


    Can anyone else see EPG contents from Finnish Yle 1 HD - does it look something similar as attached mine? Ei Lähetystä = no transmission and that is actually no true at all. If nothing there is always at least some text news flashes going on and all other times than "ei lähetystä" should really have some proper EPG info and programs really going on.

  • It definetly receives data - it is just some data not all data and I am not sure is it transmission or receiving that fails. Based on local VU+ forums I thought that it is receiving but when I look those random locked channels from same satellite I am not sure anymore. I have complete data in some Hungarian channels and only my local ones are the poor ones. So poor EPG is definetly related on my local satellite operator but as I have not seen EPG in any other systems I am not sure where problem actually lies.


    The solutions I am looking for are


    1) Tune up EPG receiving to be more "active"

    2) Force certain DVB-S2 channels use same EPG as their conterparts in DVB-T2.

    3) Setup internet based epg for some channels


    I have full EPG data in DVB-T2 signal in those channels but I am preferring DVB-S2 versions due better bitrate in signal. Of course I can give up and start using antenna versions but that is not my first option due image quality.


    I am looking for someone to blame - either it is VDR setup or local satellite operator and plenty of things start point towards my operator 8o


    Next step I will try is to knock someones door that has a satellite dish and ask can I see their EPG data. That confirms was that VU+ forum statement I got correct or not?

  • Neighbour tested in VU+ and he had similar issues. On the same time he had ancient operators receiver and that read all the EPG well. So there is definetlty something system dependable but hard to say what.


    For a week or so I have had a full EPG data. So this issue starts to turn to form where my operators data upload seems to be a key player related maybe on receivers capability to read it. I will ask my operators support how they work with EPG but as knowing their service my hopes are not too high.


    So all good now but I am not sure will it stay like this in future.

  • Update this topic - time will fix it. So difference in DVB-T and DVB-S is that in Terrestial side EPG data comes more or less immediately when channel is tuned but in Satellite broadcasts it seems to take a while. And that while in my case might be pretty long but within few days data always gets updated in decent way.


    So at least in my case with Thor satellite and Nordic satellite operator it seems that EPG gets updated in fairly tiny pieces day by day and eventually within a week it gets as it should be. This was clearly visible when one channel I typically follow changed location and I retuned it. In first few days EPG was very unrealiable but within a week it started to look normal.


    Terrestial antenna broadcasted EPG gets fullfilled more or less immediately. It is probably related on way EPG data is uploaded in broadcast.


    So nothing really done but problem fixed by time


    Still one thing what I am not sure. If I do not tune to certain channel from DVB-S for a while will it update EPG despite that. I have feeling that not watching some channels for a while might cause some lack of EPG data in satellite broadcast. However I am not sure about this or is it just a wrong impression. The significant EPG lacks are pretty rare in my systems nowdays.

  • The actual topic is solved and things work. I will take a slightly diffent angle to this issue. In my systems same channel comes from Terrestial and Satellite broadcasting. Satellite EPG is way shorter than Terrestial version for same channels. Reading EPG from internet is of course the option but is it in theory possible read EPG from another channel and push that as a EPG data to some other channel.


    In nutshell the simple approach would be using normal EPG search as a source for automatic recording but instead of generating timer for that excact channel where search is made the timer is generated to channnel a-x or directly to channel XYZ instead. So some sort of automated channel mask/shift for autotimer?


    Manually this is easy but how about autotimers? Any discussion like this on german language?


    So the simplest approach would be pushing DVB-t based EPG to another DVB-S based channels EPG data. So kind of instead download EPG from internet the same channel counterpart in another transmission could be used for making EPG better.

  • With vdr-plugin-epgfixer, the epgclone.conf might be the one for you.

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  • Great hint - the downside is that plugin seems to be updated quite a while ago but if it works still it might do the thing. In nutshell the needed task is to replace one channel epg with another channel epg. That is really the only thing I need. I will check that plugin and what it does - thanks.